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User talk:The quantum pacifier
Welcome ah, i see you still havent answer this ---> "so how do i present them? by stating the names? or just give you the links? but wont that be inappropriate for a link to appear in an article? but there are just handful of source i know of, those books must be published recently, because i asked him/her to send only new infos. please instruct me in detail on how to do so, and do help me to do citations.. if any." yet. The quantum pacifier 02:40, August 25, 2011 (UTC) How to reference/cite Referencing in a nutshell Some Heading Blah blah blah relevant new info about GN particles.This comes from Volume 1 Chapter 2 page 34-36. References This is referencing in a nutshell as you can see the ref code does not appear in the viewable article only in the source code, that is not seen by the average user.Denbo786 07:45, August 25, 2011 (UTC) Presenting source First, ask your friend where he/she found the information. If it is/they are not published, we do not need it/them and will not accept it/them. Now, if he/she dropped name(s) of book(s), list the information (post it here in this talk page) and point in what book it is found. We will help you how to put them in the articles. Well, if you're curious how to put reference, just put at the end of the phrase/sentence and put where you got the info in the middle (****here*****) It will look like what Denbo786 has done above. He/She wrote Blah blah blah relevant new info about GN particles.This comes from Volume 1 Chapter 2 page 34-36. and the reference would be seen at the bottom of the article. --Bronx01 (talk| ) 15:58, August 25, 2011 (UTC) Re: Non teleporting ELS suits Ummm...I'm guessing that since whatever suits they assimilated didn't have quantum teleportation, I'm guessing that's why they didn't do itGaeaman 788 is an able administrator 18:04, October 7, 2011 (UTC) :I rather post in the original place where its posted rather on the asker's userpage, easier to track messages that way but since Gaeman posted here thought I just do it here. :The thing is, that description from the summary of 00N chapter 16 is referring to the scene in the movie where the large fleet of ELS teleports near Jupiter (I believe the summary says something about the initial scouting party sending a signal to the larger fleet which then teleported into Jupiter when they receive the message of a civilization near there), where that big portal appeared and they appeared from within it. The way I see it, just because they possess the ability to make large teleportation portals that doesn't mean they can teleport individual units around because the portals could have been made by some larger units or by combining collective energy from the entire fleet. :Nor does it mean it's useful to use that ability for quick teleportations either because we don't know the preparation time needed each time they do need to teleport. Quantum teleport just refers to the ability to "cheat normal space" in terms of movement but that doesn't mean being able to do one allows you to do the other types and variants because the magnitudes are different, and the conditions and requirements of their initial "large whole fleet" teleportation are not known anyways. Even if the individual units can teleport, we still don't know whether they can do so instantaneously like 00 Raiser did because only short instantaneous quick bursts are actually useful in battles while the long range portals appear to be more useful when actually traveling long distances. Being able to do one does not necessrily mean you could do the other. :If one ones to break quantum teleportation speculation to an even more complex levels, some can argue that the instantaneuos one like 00 Raiser requires the ability to break through normal spacetime quickly and efficiently, and slip through to a nearby location. Whereby the portal-like teleportation might require the punching through of a much powerful hole and can be used to travel to further locations but at a much higher energy cost and a much longer preparation time (I speculate this because in three cases where we have seen a visible portal used, they have been used mainly for traveling purposes rather than battle purposes. The three examples are ELS teleportaing near Jupiter in the movie, 00 Qan(T) teleporting to travel to the ELS's homeworld in the movie and lastly, ELS Qan(T) arriving back at Earth in 00N Final). Both may do the task of cheating normal spacetime travel, but both may have different degrees and "stats" which would affect what situations they can be useful in. :For example, if we assume in a scenario than an individual ELS could teleport and can only use the portal method like we saw the fleet it and if the portal method takes a long time to prepare (and possibly conserve) then its not going to be useful in the heat of the battle where maneuvers are more important than traveling long distances. There's another reason I'm suspicious of its battle usability as well which was the fact that they did not use it to get to Earth. They used it to get to Jupiter from whenever they were before but for Earth they used simple propulsion to get there and it took them three months to do so. Why is this? I don't know but for them not to use it to get from Jupiter to Earth, then there must be some incompatibility between the portal teleportation and short range usage for them to rather travel by propulsion than just teleporting. :On a more realistic scenario where we can use some comparisons, we can also do a solid basic energy comparison between an individual ELS unit and 00 Raiser. The simple question would be do the singular ELS unit have as much energy as 00 Raiser because 00 Raiser can only do its awesome teleportation in Trans-Am and with the Twin Drive? Because if not, then we can easily see the reason, which is that a basic ELS unit does not have as much energy as 00 Raiser thus doing quantum teleportation on its own to the level of 00 Raiser's would be impossible. Going by battle performance I really do not see a basic ELS unit having the same energy unit as 00 Raiser who has the Twin Drive System. If they did they would wipe the ESF Army off the floor even faster. This example is simple because it assumes energy consumption of a basic in battle quick teleportation is all the same (in real life different alternate technology that do the same performance/function can have vastly different energy efficiency/usage rates) but its decent enough I guess. The quick teleportation is only useful for quick dodging maneuvers anyways for the most parts. :For the record, we did not see the ELS do Trans-Am either and one would expect the GN-XIVs to have that ability. They're probably dislike the fact that their going to be out of energy after it most likely, still for some reason they did not use it. Also, ELS 00 Raiser is not canon by the way. We have not seen it in any of the sidestories (which always serve to depict other events that tie in to the anime, rather than to re-adapt the anime events themselves). It only appeared in the manga movie adaptation, which depicts the events of the movie quite differently from the actual animated movie. The novel adaptations are canon to my knowledge but I have not heard k Also, sorry for the long and confusing post. -SuperSonicSP 05:10, October 8, 2011 (UTC) RE: 00Q short range teleportation like 00R If you like long explanations, you should ask Sonic. I have no resources or books to work with, only my observations from the anime and my own thoughts. Granted that we don't know what exactly triggers 00R's quantization and what happens to it in betwen vanishing and reappearing. I couldn't really answer in 00Q's case since it only does the long range ftl teleportation. I would guess that it could work for 00Q, but that it would still need the sword bits. But that's just my guess, ask Sonic or BronxGaeaman 788 is an able administrator 10:43, October 15, 2011 (UTC) :I can't give long answers either unfortunately. To my knowledge, there has not been any elaboration on the matter on any sources. If we were to rely on speculative theory, I also would think it would be hard to answer but my speculation would be that it could. As mentioned, 00 Raiser's teleportation is caused by the Twin Drive System being involved somehow and since Qan(T) also has the system, there's little reason to think that it can't do the same either. I have have a long and winded theory on why, and if your curious to read, you can read it below. It is quite windy though so I warn you if you decide to read it. I kinda type my mind out loud so it might not written to the best of levels. :Of course, the subject of 00 Raiser's quantum teleportation is a bit complex, because there's so many mysteries to it. The mystery is mainly not regarding science in how 00 cheated spacetime (which quite frankly can be easily explained using a bunch of physics theories regarding spacetime; whichever of those the case may be) but rather how 00 managed to activate such an ability. Afterall, a beam rifle or a particle propulsion systems which are ability/equipment/systems inside the suit that uses particles to do a particular task like shooting compressed GN Particle beams or move, yet the quantum teleportation ability is not designed into the suit. We can easily speculate that it likely relates to the Twin Drive System but we don't know what caused 00 to be able to do that or how did that action took place at a specific time. For example, when Setsuna teleported the first time while fighting Gadessa, how did Setsuna used that ability? I find it unlikely that he pressed a button to use it. because its not part of 00' mobile suit design ability (unlike 00 Qan(T) long range "Transfer" ability; which very much looks like an ability intergrated into the mobile suit's systems, both by the way we see the user interface works as well as the fact that the Sword Bits were involved in the usage) and not to mention Setsuna actually saying "what was that?" after he settled the battle. Still, he used the ability twice and they were both strategically valid uses (in fact, all three instances were all strategically valid) which rules some random spike that causes it to happen; not to mention the fact that Setsuna used the second teleport to appear in a position that allowed him to do a counterattack to destroy Gadessa's GN Mega Launcher. In fact, now that I think about it, all three quantum teleports were all counterattcks by 00 with a melee attack againts the enemy. :My "speculation" is that there's a hidden blackbox ability inside the GN Drives that allows the ability to be activated. The ability is likely not related much on engineering specifics (IE, the mobile suits need to have this or that) just that the powerplant system alone does something to facilitate the quantum teleportation (like a punch a dimension hole through spacetime or whatever; or "insert wild pseudoscience theory here"). The pilot is still likely involved in the positional and timing somehow because of the super-positives positioning and timings we have the seen the ability being used. :Remember that Trans-Am Burst is also a blackbox ability, one that is unlocked and used only after it has sense an Innovator's quantum brainwave and when it did it activated in Episode 24. The actual increased output and purity of the particles generated by the TAB actually requires quantum brainwaves for an Innovator in order to even be sucessful; as it was mentioned in the episode as well as in one of the S2 Official Files (I suspect it was volume 6, but I cannot remember. Might also be 5). Prior to episode 24, we also saw another incident in episode 19(?) where 00 had an extremely high output (seven times) and was releasing particles and quantum communication fields like mad, Mileina noted it as a weird anomaly. This was likely caused by Setsuna's quantum brainwaves that was starting to appear, during episode after this we saw Setsuna's Innovator eyes for the first time. :The paragraph above is relevant to my theory. First of all, it suggests to us that even before Setsuna fully Innovated the Twin Drive might have already been affected by his quantum brainwaves. It also suggests to us that brainwave may affect the Twin Drive and allow it to produce strange anomalies..............like a seven times output with a strong quantum communication field. We saw the first quantization quite early in episode 12, Setsuna barely shown signs of Innovation at that time, but he has been within 00's Trans-Am twice (00V Senki Mission 4 mentions that Trans-Am particles are what causes Innovation), so he might have "started" even if he isn't far off. He might already be producing weak Innovator quantum brainwaves at that point that might affect the Twin Drive. The way I see it, the Twin Drive also likely has a hidden blackbox ability for quantization and that at certain times the pilot can unconsciously activate that system and maybe even help direct it to where he wants. I am certain that a blackbox system is the only likely explanation though because some software must have helped the Twin Drive know what to do and facilitate the quantization processes. That's just how things work in the modern world, machines don't do things magically by themselves, there must a set of instructions or algorithms that give orders to complex systems to do what in order to achieve certain effects and its close to impossible that the three quantum teleports from 00 Raiser has been some random spike of particle activity from the Twin Drive that causes to just do things at the right time, especially when were talking about a machine that was not designed for this ability in the first place. :So how does this relate to 00 Qan(T)'s ability really? Well to be honest it doesn't but I have contrasted the vast difference between Qan(T)'s very specific and machine based quantum teleport ability to 00 Raiser's more random and mysterious nature. For the sake of theory, we're going to assume that my above speculation on 00 Raiser's quantum teleportation to be true . After this, we'll have to ask two questions, the first being whether the same blackbox software that was in 00 Raiser's GN Drive is also in 00 Qan(T). Remember, that the Ptolemaios Faction created the two new GN Drives themselves instead of it being an original creation of Celestial Being's Europa team more than a hundred years prior, so this is important. The second question is whether Ptolemaios team noticed the ability and made their own system that essentially does short range combat teleportation and integrated it into the Qan(T). If the answer is both or at least the second question is yes than it is possible for 00 Qan(T) to use the ability. Note that from a physical or hardware perspective its definitely possible for Qan(T) to do it because a Twin Drive System is there but the more important question is the software. Imagine if we have an Original Drive; exactly the same as any other Original GN Drive but without Aeolia's blackbox with the Trans-Am System loaded. Would it be able to use Trans-Am even if all the same physical parts are there? The answer is no because the system software that asks the GN Drive to do certain things to facilitate and then make Trans-Am possible is gone, thus even if the Drive can use Trans-Am physically, it can't do so now because it doesn't know how to do it. Hardware responses to what software asks it so, and without instructions from the software to do something, hardware won't just magically do that instructions just by its own which is why that its important to have a system to facilitate the ability. :Of course, I find the probability of Celestial Being NOT putting the software to do it very very low. Afterall, they made one for the long range quantum teleportation which shows that they are at least ware of the concepts and principles behind what caused it in 00 Raiser; which also means that they might have reviewed data on 00 Raiser in order to know and develop the teleport ability for Qan(T) in the first place. Considering that the short range ability is not reliant on specific equipment requirements on the mobile suit except maybe the Twin Drive, it would be stupid of them not to put the software to do it in either Qan(T) or in the Twin Drive. So yeah, I do believe its quite likely that Qan(T) would be able to use it; which is my (speculative) conclusion at the start of this post. :Don't go put it in the Wikia or something since I'm building speculations among speculations here because Bandai hasn't given us an answer to my knowledge and this just happens to be what I personally believe to be the case. I hope this post satisfy your question somehow. -SuperSonicSP 05:04, October 16, 2011 (UTC) Harute/Brave I personally not big on posting replies on other people's talk pages since its harder to track conversations, but since you requested it I shall happily oblige. It is mentioned in the Final Mechanics sourcebook that says that the Brave is more maneuverable than Harute, this is (according to the paraphrase translation I read) because the Harute like the Zabanya was built with heavy equipment in mind as we can see from the designs of both suits. Its important to note that mobility and speed are two different stats (MG Exia mentions that Exia is the most mobile/maneuverable between the S1 Gundams, even though its obvious Kyrios is the fastest in terms of traveling/boost speed), so just because the Harute is less mobile than the Brave, doesnt mean its slower but having said that I can't make a speed comparison because a direct official comparison between them in terms of speed has not been made. Its possible that the Brave is faster as well but I cannot say that with absolute confidence since we don't see either of them that long, being just in a movie and all rather than a series. I can't say who will win in a battle, but it should be safe to say that Harute has the far better firepower taking into account the GN Cannons, GN Sword Rifles, and GN Scissor Bits, that's high powered attacks in ranged and close combat. The Brave's two Drives does give it a higher recharge rate though, and its firepower is not too shabby either combined with its better mobility. Aside from pilot skill and luck, the answer would depend on what type of production suit the Brave is. For all intents and purposes, the Brave is a semi mass produced suit. A source that I can't remember at the moment mentioned that its designed to be lesser in numbers than the GN-XIV, and more of a "quick response with sheer power" kind of design. So we know its not to the same mass production levels as the GN-X or Ahead series (which will likely degrade its overall stat somehow), but we still can't narrow out its power level based on production. It could be like the Gadessa Series, which for all intents and purposes are indeed semi mass production suits but are actually equal to a single force suit like Gundams (better in performance because of advanced technology). If its like this, this will the Brave very storng indeed but will likely be reflected with higher overall costs which is not in the scope of this analysis. But it could also be "cheaper/plentiful" than the Gadessa but more "unique/single force" than the GN-X, IE something in between. In regards to this paragraph, the former theory would suggests that its overall stats is very comparable to a single suit like the Harute, but the latter would suggests that the overall is lesser. Personally I think its overall stats are lesser or the latter theory. The reason I think this is because that the impression Ive got don't make it sound like the Command Brave is THAT much stronger than the Standard, even if some little descriptions does mention that it is stronger in some areas, like the beam saber output. And while the standard isn't weak by any measure, you kind get the feeling that they're less powerful than a single suit model like Harute when thinking of them as individual suits rather than a team (which they are really effective in). This is not to say that the Command Brave is "very" inferior to Harute, but you kind get the feeling that if this was an RPG, Harute will get the better stats. -SuperSonicSP 23:39, January 19, 2012 (UTC)